Categorized | Articles, Call of Shame

Now You Need to Be a Judge to Talk About Evidence

Posted on May 31st, 2013 by Marc Stevens

If you want to hear some really stupid things from bureaucrats, just ask them for evidence their laws apply to you.  Once you get past the initial evasions, and you just stick to asking for evidence and a responsive answer, if they don’t just hang up or scream for a cop to arrest you, then the stupid really comes out.

This call to a California tax bureaucrat on 24 May 2013, was regarding a form letter that I got, and yes I was a little angry.  Though with good reason.  The agent was supposed to have been doing a three month investigation into the evidence proving the California constitution and laws applied to about twelve people the agency is attacking.  Instead of providing any evidence, all the agent did was recite the constitution and code.

He avoided my calls for weeks and by chance I got him on the line.  When confronted directly on the evidence proving the constitution and laws applied, he had nothing.  For those who may feel bad for Brian, keep in mind he assured me he was investigating; investigating for three months.  Despite not having found any evidence, he insisted the laws applied and there was jurisdiction and gave his blessing to the attacks.

Now for the stupidity.  When challenged on the evidence the laws applied, all Brian could come up with was:

“Um, well. I can’t answer that because I’m not a judge.”

This guy tried to convince me you have to be a judge to do a tax assessment.  Never mind that his associates at the tax bureaucracy are not judges and are applying the law to millions of people everyday.  He didn’t seem to notice how ridiculous his answer was: in order to provide evidence the laws apply to someone, you have to have a doctorate degree and be a judge.

In three months he could not come up with any evidence the laws applied; all he could do, like in the call, was get circular and reference the law.  But if you need to be a judge to know what facts prove the law is applicable, then what was the point of doing a three month investigation?  it does show that whether on the phone, in court or given a three month investigation, these people cannot provide any evidence their sacred writ, the law, applies to us.  We all know the line by now: the law is applicable because the law is applicable:


The obvious answer is: there was no investigation.  Bureaucrats are killers, thieves, and liars: everything is a lie, from jurisdiction to there being states and citizens.  You cannot believe a word that comes out of their mouths.  Well, excepting threats of violence, then they are probably being truthful.

As always, if there are people who believe they have evidence the constitution and laws apply to me and those I work with, then they are more than welcome to try substituting their expertise for the agents who have failed in every instance to provide any evidence.  Do what Brian and so many other bureaucrats have been unable to do, provide evidence.  Call the No State Project, we’re live every Saturday from 4-7pm est, 1-4 pst.  I’m happy to schedule you as a guest also, or record the segments.


16 Comments For This Post

  1. Paul Says:

    I think he gave you the answer you needed..
    He said in his official capacity..
    “If you or your clients don’t want to follow the constitution then you don’t have to”
    I’d thank you very much and goodbye..

    he didn’t say you were obliged to follow it or could be forced to follow it..
    He said you are free not to.. that’s your answer.. no..?

  2. Marc Stevens Says:

    @ Paul, that doesn’t mean they will stop attacking us though.

  3. Chuck Renault Says:

    Marc, the only feasible answer these morons can give that would be truthful, and of course the truth escapes them completely, would be the contractual agreement between an individual and their corporation. If such contract exist, it should be easily obtained for evidence of proof. We simply must remember that contracts MUST be entered knowingly, willfully, intelligently, and intentionally, with FULL disclosure regarding any ramifications and/or consequences. I am still proud to be a follower of yours even with that little East Coast accent :)… See you soon…

  4. gary Says:

    Marc, when you refer to “the constitution’, does Arizona (maybe all the states) have two constitutions, like California? We have the original 1849 version, which follows the US COnstitution (1791 version), and we have the 1879 version, which is the CA/federal California version, which is “similar”, but restricts the people rather than the government, like the original does.

    I have had an FTB problem for 3 years now, and they just blatantly diregard their own laws in pursuit of the money. Their computer and same brain dead people you get on your calls just don’t know when to quit. How do we burn their playhouse to the ground?

    I tried your template, and they just ignore it all and do the same circular logic: “you owe it because we assessed you”…. yeah, but….

  5. Ken Says:

    I ts becoming more and more apparent that when you ask the question they’re blown out of the water. Your consent is needed for the public process to be successful.

  6. Ken Says:

    @ Chuck, precisely

  7. Steve Says:

    hey Marc,
    I’ve been following you for a little while and appreciate your commitment. I am being shanghaied also by city cops who kidnapped me for traveling freely in my private property. I have been reading canon laws and Article 14-Proof Canon 1480 states…Proof is the demonstration or production of one or more facts and evidence to support an argument based on reason and logic. Proof therefore does not depend on faith or trust. Just wondering what your thoughts are on the Canon Laws.

  8. Jim Says:

    Marc, if I could play the devil’s advocate and pretend to be a judge I could hypothetically assert the evidence the constitution and laws apply to you is because you were “factually” born or live within a certain geographical land mass, politically known as the USA, and you live and interact within complex organized communities commonly known as states, cities and towns. These in turn are regulated by a constitution, laws, rules, codes and similar which are “factually” recorded on paper.

    It stands to reason that as a responsible member of a community, you are socially expected from a logical, moral and ethical perspective and obligation, to comply with its laws, rules, codes etc. in order to help maintain peace, order and harmony within the community. If you wish to live outside of the constitution and laws of the geographical land mass politically known as the USA and its respective states, cities and towns, then you are free to leave the USA and live elsewhere, but whilst you remain within the USA the “fact” exists that it is a nation governed by a constitution and laws regardless of your subjective beliefs. My explanation may not entirely satisfy you as “hard” or “factual” evidence but it is the reality of the world we live in.

  9. Bev Bailey Says:

    This is so true and scary. I am having the very same non-responsive communication with tax collectors. The scary part is that I am a Canadian and everything is the same here. In Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) has a mandate to implement tax law regarding spousal support as intended by Parliament (the lawmakers). However, CRA will not even acknowledge that I am speaking of the application of tax law not the law itself. Since tax year 2000, I have been actively appealing to the government to instruct CRA to apply tax law as Parliament intended. I submit that collections should be subject to an annual audit and there should be a court where a taxpayer’s regarding the application of tax law can be heard and remedied. Why do tax collectors work In a vacuum with impunity?
    Both our country’s spend endless time and money focused on the spending of tax dollar with no provision in the system to assure the lawful collection of tax dollars. It’s our money – coming and going.

    Some of my advocacy can be found at

  10. Alex R. Knight III Says:

    The positive thing about persisting with this is that the truth becomes more and more evident, and thereby less and less deniable. Eventually, this whole cherade is going to run out of steam — which is, after all, just watered-down hot air. 🙂

  11. Chris Says:


    There is one reason – and only one reason – they ignore you:

    You do not have the power to force them to do your will, and they have the power to force you to do their will. It’s that simple.

    IF you had the power to force them – using their corrupt, rigged, mafia legal system – to do your will, then they would quit harassing you.

    Bottom line here is they are worthless people w/no marketable skills, “pillaging and plundering” everybody to make their easy livings. What psychopath would give us such an easy job by doing what’s MORALLY right?

    If you want to MAKE them listen to you, be prepared to give up the rest of your life fighting them (unless you’re one of the few lucky people I know).

    “Good luck, Mr. Phelps” … Chris

  12. Chris Says:


    What you are experiencing is how “rich people” “play”.

    Rich people are consummate game players.

    They also like putting everything on the line, as long as it’s not their “everything”.

    They also won’t “play” if there’s any potential of losing.

    So, until you can get all Canadians to get off the government handout, you’re s.o.l., b/c they’ve been bribed into coercing money out of you to live. Those leeches keep the bureaucrat-leeches in power over you.

    Government is the bigges money laundering scheme known to man, and always has been.

    … Chris

  13. Adrian Johnson Says:

    I can understand peoples frustration. Please read(study) a document called “The Commerce Game Exposed”. After reading the ‘comments’, I can see that dealing with the ‘surface subject matter’ can be frustrating, as well as confusing. I infinitely better to understand the foudation upon which the confusing BS is structured. Then people will have a more confident feeling.

  14. bruce sloane Says:

    5 U.S.C. 556 (d)

  15. holla@D Says:

    can you believe this guy “Let me flip it: how does it NOT apply?” O.o

  16. Truth be told Says:

    This article is so true! I went to a defacto court for a traffic summons (better known as a Notice of Appearance containing personal confidential identifiers used to track your property and steal it for collateral of unassessed damages better known as legalized extortion). The incompetent court clerk asked me to verify my name for her record. When asked what evidence she had before the court for any accusation or complaint filed against me. She became irate and called a police officer to an intimidation factor. To make a long story short they only had a list of names and next to my name was ” gave cop a hard time”! What kind of nonsense is that! So no charges, no criminal complaint, no real case. I mean you don’t even have a docket number or case number it’s all fake!

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    […] there just happens to be people who are taking a serious look at precisely that: Now You Need to Be a Judge to Talk About Evidence by Marc Stevens If you want to hear some really stupid things from bureaucrats, just ask them for […]

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