Me and the Stones
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Author: kcpopps
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Me and the Stones
06-16-2011, 10:01 PM
Post: #1
Me and the Stones
My first post here - came looking for help.

I'm being sued by a local hospital for around $9,000. The largest chunk of that is from 2 emergency room visits when I was having a kidney stone passing.

The first visit, in 2005, the bill was about $5,000. The second ER visit, in 2009 was $1200. The first time they gave me a CAT Scan and that is the reason for the difference in the bill amounts. After that first attack, I read all I could about kidney stones and learned that a $3500 CAT Scan is not necessary - a less than $50 x-ray will do just fine to diagnose and confirm size of kidney stones. Then they say there's nothing to do except wait for it to pass, and give you a pain shot. The pain shot is the only true treatment received. The rest is diagnosis and procedure that protects the hospital more than the patient.

in 2005 I did not know that. In 2009 I did - and as the nurse started wheeling me down a hallway I asked where we were going - and she said Cat Scan. I said "NO - I just want to do a standard x-ray". She smiled, and best I can recall (being in agony and all...) said something equivalent to "sure - no problem!" And we did the normal x-ray and the bill was thousands less.

In 2005, they knew that I had NO Insurance. They didn't ask me if I wanted to buy a $3500 cat scan or a $35 X-ray. They didn't tell me there was any choice. Seems to me that they took advantage of the situation and fraudulently jacked the bill up as high as possible.

However, the Judge says he won't hear that because I am not medically qualified to diagnose myself. He says I'll have to provide an expert witness to testify that any services were not "medically necessary".

But you don't need to be an medical expert to see the evidence of overcharging - it's proven by my 2 visits. The second time the hospital did not object to a normal x-ray - it was sufficient - so how can they say it was necessary the first time?

I don't want to pay them.
Why? Because I know the Stones well now. I've had 5 occurrences, spread out over about an 8 year period. I can diagnose now. The Judge is wrong - there is no one on this planet MORE qualified to diagnose my kidney stones than me. I know what a kidney stone feels like - it's not mistakable nor forgettable.

I have endured many hours of torturous pain, hoping it will pass before my will breaks. On three occasions, the stone passed in under 5 hours and I avoided the expense of the ER. Five hours seems to be about my breaking point. The pain wins.. and beaten, I allow my wife to drive me to the ER. Upon arrival, while under extreme duress, they make me sign papers saying I'll pay for any damn thing they want to put on the bill. It's like they're holding the antidote to the poison over your head, promising it only after you sign the papers.

Then the doctors will tell you there's nothing to do except wait for it to pass, and they give you a pain shot and send you home.

It really pisses me off - that shot of morphine was itemized on the bills for $17.50. And that's all I needed. I already know it's a kidney stone. I know it will pass. I know a $20 medicine will make the pain tolerable. I SHOULD be able to call my family doctor, who knows my history of stones, and get that $20 dose when needed. Instead, because of the drug war and the medical mafia, my choice is to endure the pain or go to the ER, where it costs THOUSANDS for bureaucratic fees and expensive tests and treatments that I don't want nor need.

The Judge has pretty much told me he's going to rule against me unless I have an expert witness for the trial date of August 8th. He may rule against me even if I did have an expert witness.

The consent agreement they want me to sign bothers me too. In addition to details of payment arrangement, it states that I agree I owe them the money for "services rendered at my request". I disagree, services were rendered but not necessarily at my request.

Rather than signing admission of debt, can I change that part to "No Contest" or something like that in a case like this?
Or any other thoughts that might help?

Mainly I just wanted to vent.
Thanks for listening!
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06-17-2011, 03:41 AM
Post: #2
Re: Me and the Stones
It sure looks to me like you need to think about changing your diet!

As to the rest of it... I'm not sure what I think. It certainly appears they took advantage of you. But then on the other hand, it also appears that you agreed to the process, so I'm not sure how I feel about personal responsibility for one's choices. Is it fraud? Hmm.

By the way, I've read for years that drinking a half cup of olive oil followed by a quarter cup of fresh lemon juice will get rid of kidney stones. Maybe I have the quantities off, but it is something like that. Sure a lot cheaper than the medical establishment. You may want to do some investigation on other options than what the allopathic establishment wants to do to you.


- NonE

P.S.
Quote:However, the Judge says he won't hear that because I am not medically qualified to diagnose myself. He says I'll have to provide an expert witness to testify that any services were not "medically necessary".
While this may or may not be true, you certainly are qualified to choose what costs you are capable of paying.

- NonE .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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06-17-2011, 05:25 PM
Post: #3
Re: Me and the Stones
I would suggest a bottle of Wild Turkey, since You are comfortable diagnosing Yourself ...

Hmmmnnn ....

$26 bux, vs. $5000 ....

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06-19-2011, 10:40 AM
Post: #4
Re: Me and the Stones
Thanks for the replies. I have learned a lot about kidney stones and haven't had one for about 3 years.

Agreeing to the process? Let's review again how that agreement comes about being agreed upon. Being asked to sign a financial agreement while in EXTREME pain is the very definition of signing a contract under duress, if you ask me. After you're in hour 5 or 6 of intense torturous pain, you'll sign anything! And the agreement should not be so open ended in favor of the hospital - as I said before, they basically have you sign a paper that says they can sell you anything and charge you as much as they want to.

What other product / service do you buy like that?

This is like if you took your car in to the mechanic and tell him you need a oil change... he says sure just sign here where it says you'll pay for what we decide is needed to fix it up. (You don't know the prices for any of these services beforehand either.) Then they change the oil - but with the latest techno oil that costs ten times as much as a more conventional oil, replaces all four tires, gives the engine a tune up, replaces the headlights, fix a dent in the door and installs a new sound system. Then they sue you for non-payment of "services rendered at your request".

And in that scenario we're leaving out the 'under duress' of severe pain factor!

No other business gets away with that (except the government itself) - why does the medical monopoly?

No medical degree is required to compare the bills for procedures from the two identical cases - same diagnosis in both, same remedy in both. The CAT Scan given in the first case is proven to NOT be medically necessary by it's omission in the second case. They give you the most expensive test available and do not inform you that there is an option that is incredibly inexpensive by comparison - and they do this knowing I had no insurance to help pay the bill.

How is that not fraud? Isn't that the proper term for connivingly adding expensive, unnecessary items onto someones bill?
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06-19-2011, 01:35 PM
Post: #5
Re: Me and the Stones
kcpopps Wrote:How is that not fraud? Isn't that the proper term for connivingly adding expensive, unnecessary items onto someones bill?

You make a convincing argument.

- NonE

- NonE .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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