Rant against not voting.
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Rant against not voting.
05-05-2011, 09:51 PM
Post: #1
Rant against not voting.
So my friend has invited me to this Facebook group that see themselves as the anti tea party("Coffee Muggers"). The following is a post from a lady that cannot stand people that do not vote. I would like to respond but, want to do it without being too disrespectful. Any suggestions on how I should proceed.?



Rant 2: On Voting

For those of you who don't vote, or don't understand the importance:



Have you considered that if you voted, you might have the opportunity to vote for someone who more closely shares your views? Let me explain what I think you might not understand about the process...



Every time you vote in you designated area, your vote gets counted toward all kinds of things. For example, if you, and 50 other people like you voted for or against a specific cause or bill (because there are more than just people on the ballot) your opinion is not just counted and left aside. Not, your district person (council person, congress person, what have you) will then know what the people in his/her district care about; what you want to happen in your country.



On the other hand, every time you don't vote, its one less person voting for or against the things you believe in.



The simple version: the government doesn't have to care about the issue if they think their constituents don't care. Every time you fail to vote, you're telling them not just that YOU don't care, but that the people in your area don't care.



So every time you want to open your mouth to complain about the state of affairs in your neighborhood, your schools, your block, your city... Blame yourself, and people like you for not forcing the politicians to give a crap about the issues that directly affect you. That's how they win. That's how they run. That's how they make their decisions. They ask the question "Will my constituents vote me back in if I sing this bill? Will I get re-elected if I don't pay attention to this issue?" You’re not voting allows them to do whatever they want.



That said, for those of you who are proud that you have never voted, or think that not voting makes you seem like you have some special insight, or that you make sense when you complain about your vote not counting because...



Stop. Think before you speak, and say nothing anyway. You sound ignorant. You are doing nothing but spouting the same lies you were told, or the same misinformation someone else heard and thought sounded cool. Its like a bad joke that people keep repeating because someone else laughed when they told it the first time. They aren't laughing with you, they are laughing at you. If you can stand on line for 2 hours for "free drinks before midnight," leave work early for "Happy Hour" at Applebee’s, you can make time to vote. There is not viable excuse for not voting other than being in jail, or not being a citizen. There's a reason people died for the right to vote. There's a reason people leave their country and become citizens of this one... and it isn't because we treat them so well. It isn't because once they become citizens they aren't still treated like foreigners.

I am one of the first people to complain: unsure of how proud I can be to be an American. I am also the person who woke up on her 18th birthday and went to the post office to pick up a voter registration card, filled it out, and bought myself a stamp to celebrate the MOMENTOUS occasion. I'm that Chick. I'm the one sleeping in the back of history class, but can still remember that there are 50 stars on the American flag: 1 star for each State. I know that there are 13 stripes which represent the original 13 States of the Union, 7 red stripes for the bloodshed for the freedom it symbolizes... but I digress



If for no other reason, you should vote so that you can have some fact to give substance to your verbal diarrhea.



Final Thought: Consider how many people would not be in jail if EVERY drug dealer, drug addict, pimp, and prostitute took the time to vote on issues like legalizing recreational drugs, pandering, and prostitution.
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05-06-2011, 07:08 AM
Post: #2
Re: Rant against not voting.
I'll take a shot. Keep it short.

They force you to pay them, do you really think they represent you?
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05-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Post: #3
Re: Rant against not voting.
I would put it like this:

Do you have a right to forcibly interfere with another person's peaceable choices? If yes, you are a violent thug. If no, then can you vote to give a right which you don't have (see question 1) to another person so that they can violently interfere with the freely chosen actions of another peaceable person? If yes, you are an intellectual moron or a hypocrite. If no then what in the world do you think the act of "voting" is?

To vote is to proclaim that other people must do as you dictate or be subject to violent intervention up to and including death for having the temerity to make choices different from yours.

Chocolate or vanilla? WRONG CHOICE! BLAM BLAM BLAM.

Voting is utterly stupid and evil, and it takes almost no intellect to grasp this fact if (big one there...), IF one is intellectually honest. And if one is not, then one deserves whatever one gets and has no sympathy, NONE, from me.

Voting is the opposite of freedom and respect for others. It is the elimination of free choice and the enforcement of ONE [strike]OPTION[/strike] and only one possible path of action on all other people. It is anti-life.

- NonE

- NonE .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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05-06-2011, 12:57 PM
Post: #4
Re: Rant against not voting.
NonEntity Wrote:I would put it like this:... IF one is intellectually honest. And if one is not, then one deserves whatever one gets and has no sympathy, NONE, from me.

- NonE
Since you brought up the issue of intellectual honesty, I thought I'd post this on intellectual dishonesty. Seems you have no sympathy for yourself and deserve what you get. http://marcstevens.net/board/viewtopic.p...ack#p16764

NonEntity Wrote:A common criminal is honest...
Source: Post subject: Re: Defense against a threat. What is reasonable?

"Feet held to the fire" here: Post subject: Re: Defense against a threat. What is reasonable? Plus the two unanswered followup posts thereafter.

The thought of how far the human race would have advanced absent initiatory force
staggers the imagination.

THE POINT: Unlike the government thief, a common thief doesn't claim his "craft" is honest.
Lawyer-like dishonesty a point: The common thief is honest when he tells you he's robbing you.
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05-06-2011, 06:02 PM
Post: #5
Re: Rant against not voting.
I replied to her with the whole forced to pay thing.(Sorry NonE, you didnt post yet. LOL) This is what her and two others replied with. BTW I am trying to be nice about it and this is how they resond:



Original poster's comment: Oh I get it, either you didn't actually read the document, or you're just testing my patience. I'll assume you didn't read the document and provide a BRIEF explanation directly addressing your question...

Can your employer expect you to go into work and do your job without having to pay you? When was the last time you did any volunteer work? These are the questions you should ask yourself when suggesting that governmental representatives should do their jobs without getting paid through your tax dollars. Now, if you don't have a job, or get paid under the table, you have nothing to worry about... oh, except for when the laws you break cause you to join the masses in a government owned penitentary. Perhaps voting, and getting people like you to vote, might have made whatever "job" you do off the books legal.
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...


Comenter # 2: well Voting is this weird thing... Though you may feel like people don't actually represent you when you vote for them, the act of voting gives you the entitlement of calling, writing or visiting them to address your issues. Thats what they get paid for, to listen to us bitch and moan. Now if you have a job and you are paying taxes, voting or not, you still are paying them to do this service. So why give someone else the power to Hire someone you don't want working for you.... That's why you should vote.

Yeah maybe the candidate i wanted didnt win. so what.... I will make sure they listen to me..... ALSO on Ballots now, they have laws and policies on there that you can vote on... I bet that if the legalization of marijuana made it on the Ballot, if you aren't too high to make it to the polls, maybe you will to make your life more enjoyable, by the simple act of voting...
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

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Shae Muir Oh I get it, either you didn't actually read the document, or you're just testing my patience. I'll assume you didn't read the document and provide a BRIEF explanation directly addressing your question...

Can your employer expect you to go into work and do your job without having to pay you? When was the last time you did any volunteer work? These are the questions you should ask yourself when suggesting that governmental representatives should do their jobs without getting paid through your tax dollars. Now, if you don't have a job, or get paid under the table, you have nothing to worry about... oh, except for when the laws you break cause you to join the masses in a government owned penitentary. Perhaps voting, and getting people like you to vote, might have made whatever "job" you do off the books legal.
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...
#
Crystal Bunny Schloss well Voting is this weird thing... Though you may feel like people don't actually represent you when you vote for them, the act of voting gives you the entitlement of calling, writing or visiting them to address your issues. Thats what they get paid for, to listen to us bitch and moan. Now if you have a job and you are paying taxes, voting or not, you still are paying them to do this service. So why give someone else the power to Hire someone you don't want working for you.... That's why you should vote.

Yeah maybe the candidate i wanted didnt win. so what.... I will make sure they listen to me..... ALSO on Ballots now, they have laws and policies on there that you can vote on... I bet that if the legalization of marijuana made it on the Ballot, if you aren't too high to make it to the polls, maybe you will to make your life more enjoyable, by the simple act of voting...
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...


Commenter # 3: It's like this: You really don't have the right to complain, if you don't vote. To vote, you attempt to put in the leaders, that you believe will listen to into office. If they don't win, you can complain that "If the guy/gal I voted for got in, things would've been different." If they win, and don't listen, you have the right to complain that they aren't doing their job, and that's when you write your representative, and complain to him/her. That's called "getting involved in your government", which a lot of people don't do.

A lot of people want to complain about how the President is this or how Congress is that. How about you get involved in your government, and try to make a change, instead of complaining about it? Voting is a right we had to fight for. You don't see it, but the blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors are on those ballots. Why should we dishonor them, by not voting? Doesn't make sense, does it?It's like this: You really don't have the right to complain, if you don't vote. To vote, you attempt to put in the leaders, that you believe will listen to into office. If they don't win, you can complain that "If the guy/gal I voted for got in, things would've been different." If they win, and don't listen, you have the right to complain that they aren't doing their job, and that's when you write your representative, and complain to him/her. That's called "getting involved in your government", which a lot of people don't do.

A lot of people want to complain about how the President is this or how Congress is that. How about you get involved in your government, and try to make a change, instead of complaining about it? Voting is a right we had to fight for. You don't see it, but the blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors are on those ballots. Why should we dishonor them, by not voting? Doesn't make sense, does it?
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05-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Post: #6
Re: Rant against not voting.
Voting for the lesser of evils still begets evil. Thus the people that voted, they voted for evil. Therefore, it's the people that don't vote that are righteous when they complain about government because he and she didn't vote for any of the evils

The only vote that counts or represents the intellectually honest individual is a vote against initiatory force.

A vote against government having a monopoly on initiatory force is the only worthwhile vote. A government that doesn't initiate force is a voluntary government that must survive or die in a free market. The Twelve Visions Party with The Prime Law Amendment is the only party that an intellectually honest person can righteously vote in favor of.

Some anarchist are blind as a bat when it comes to the issue of voting against initiatory force. I'm being generous because it's possible they prefer chaotic anarchy rather than peaceful anarchy. One can see their cult-like mentality as they rail against the intellectually honest person for supporting the only righteous vote. Or, is it that they rail against the only righteous vote an intellectually honest person could make. Or both.

The thought of how far the human race would have advanced absent initiatory force
staggers the imagination.

THE POINT: Unlike the government thief, a common thief doesn't claim his "craft" is honest.
Lawyer-like dishonesty a point: The common thief is honest when he tells you he's robbing you.
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05-07-2011, 04:07 AM
Post: #7
Re: Rant against not voting.
"Intellect, not re-elect"

-Propagandhi
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05-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Post: #8
Re: Rant against not voting.
Must-read articles on voting:

I Don't Mind If You Keep Voting, But Do You Mind If I Keep Laughing While You Do?

An Open Letter to Voters: Please Don't

Is Voting an Act of Violence?

Much more material on voting can be found here.

He's noble enough to know what's right
But weak enough not to choose it
He's wise enough to win the world
But fool enough to lose it
He's a New World man - Rush
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05-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Post: #9
Re: Rant against not voting.
Conscious beings can reason, animals can't. Nature sans consciousness is law of the jungle. Survival of the fittest.

With his ability to reason man can know rights are not part of nature, but rather, a mind created concept that two or more people agree to.

Which causes crime, guns or humans? Which cause arson, matches or humans? Which cause spelling errors, pencils or humans? Which initiates force, a state or people?

Man has the ability to reason thus can chose to use guns without initiatory force. He can chose to use matches without doing arson. He can chose to use an eraser and or be more diligent in his spelling. He can chose to not use initiatory force everywhere and anywhere at all times, including when employed by government.

Either man has the ability to reason or he doesn't. He does. As Larken Rose pointed out; the problem is not outside of a person. It's between the ears.

The fictitious state isn't some magical thing that causes irrationality. Irrationality is a "disease" of the conscious mind that effects people in all areas of life. Some more than others in some areas more than others.

It's self-defeating to argue that a voluntary government protection service can't exist because the premise is that conscious man has the ability to reason.

If it can't exist man wouldn't have the ability to reason a free market into existence. But he can. Just as he can reason the non aggression principle into The Prime Law, TVP contract and how government could evolve into a super-competent, customer-driven protection service. All through the ability of conscious man to reason.

The thought of how far the human race would have advanced absent initiatory force
staggers the imagination.

THE POINT: Unlike the government thief, a common thief doesn't claim his "craft" is honest.
Lawyer-like dishonesty a point: The common thief is honest when he tells you he's robbing you.
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05-07-2011, 07:35 PM
Post: #10
Re: Rant against not voting.
Lysander Wrote:So my friend has invited me to this Facebook group that see themselves as the anti tea party("Coffee Muggers"). The following is a post from a lady that cannot stand people that do not vote. I would like to respond but, want to do it without being too disrespectful. Any suggestions on how I should proceed.?



Rant 2: On Voting

(blah blah blah)

From Carl Watner's "Is Voting an Act of Violence?"

Quote:Each person, by voting, sanctions the violence used by agents of the State. The link in the chain of responsibility for that violence surrounds each voter when he pulls down the lever in the voting booth. Voting is an act of presumptive violence because each voter assumes the right to appoint a political guardian over other human beings. No individual voter or even a majority of voters have such a right. If they claim to possess such a right, let them clearly explain where that right comes from and how it squares with the self-evident truths of the Declaration of Independence "that all men are created equal, [and] that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable "Rights" of "Life, Liberty," and Property.

It was with good reason that Henry David Thoreau in his essay on "Civil Disobedience" called for a total abstinence from the ballot box. "When the subject has refused allegiance, and the officer has resigned his office, then the revolution is accomplished."

And don't worry about being disrespectful. Sometimes that's exactly what's called for to snap people out of their trance.

He's noble enough to know what's right
But weak enough not to choose it
He's wise enough to win the world
But fool enough to lose it
He's a New World man - Rush
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05-07-2011, 07:48 PM
Post: #11
Re: Rant against not voting.
Dionysus Wrote:And don't worry about being disrespectful. Sometimes that's exactly what's called for to snap people out of their trance.

Whatevia.

- NonE .).

"I just don't understand how this happens." Undecided
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05-07-2011, 07:51 PM
Post: #12
Re: Rant against not voting.
Stef's rant is pretty good:

[youtube]igbBItLemsM[/youtube]
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05-07-2011, 08:56 PM
Post: #13
Re: Rant against not voting.
NonEntity Wrote:
Dionysus Wrote:And don't worry about being disrespectful. Sometimes that's exactly what's called for to snap people out of their trance.

Whatevia.

Whatevia^2. Being respectful is always my first choice. But if someone insists on thinking of me as nothing but cannon fodder for dirtbag politicians and bureaucrats, that's disrespectful in and of itself, and doesn't warrant respect in return. Or perhaps you enjoy being bitch-slapped (figuratively speaking) by pro-State trolls? I no longer tolerate it and am not afraid to tell the lot of them where to go when I have to.

He's noble enough to know what's right
But weak enough not to choose it
He's wise enough to win the world
But fool enough to lose it
He's a New World man - Rush
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05-09-2011, 02:31 AM
Post: #14
Re: Rant against not voting.
Some bitches need to be verbally bitch-slapped, Others steer clear, knowing that they too will be called out on their intellectual dishonesty and cult-like mentality.

There are no contradictions in reality. Only in people's minds. Like when a person thinks conscious man has the ability to reason and also thinks man doesn't have the ability to reason. For example, thinking man can create a voluntary service but man can't create a voluntary service if it is called government. Changing a label doesn't change man's actions.

People that erroneously assert that pro-voluntary government customer-driven protection service is pro-state are tilting a cult-like mentality at windmills; blind to their hindering the elimination of initiatory force from government. They throw the baby and reason out with the bath water.

Government doesn't initiate force, men and women do. Matches don't cause arson, men and women do. Guns don't commit crimes men and women do. Pencils don't cause spelling errors, people do.

Men and women have the ability to reason, government cannot. To be anti-government is to be anti-fiction. To be anti-initiatory force is to be anti-irrationality/anti-crime.

A principle-agent relationship can only exist between conscious beings. It cannot exist between fictitious government and conscious beings.

Also, for a person to label or infer that a person that is anti-initiatory force is pro-State is an oxymoron. It demonstrates a failure to put reason before irrationality. Nor is there a need to troll for irrationality when cult-like mentality caters to it. Damned irrationality disease -- virtually everyone has it.

The thought of how far the human race would have advanced absent initiatory force
staggers the imagination.

THE POINT: Unlike the government thief, a common thief doesn't claim his "craft" is honest.
Lawyer-like dishonesty a point: The common thief is honest when he tells you he's robbing you.
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05-10-2011, 08:54 PM
Post: #15
Re: Rant against not voting.
Lysander Wrote:Commenter # 3: It's like this: You really don't have the right to complain, if you don't vote. To vote, you attempt to put in the leaders, that you believe will listen to into office. If they don't win, you can complain that "If the guy/gal I voted for got in, things would've been different." If they win, and don't listen, you have the right to complain that they aren't doing their job, and that's when you write your representative, and complain to him/her. That's called "getting involved in your government", which a lot of people don't do.

A lot of people want to complain about how the President is this or how Congress is that. How about you get involved in your government, and try to make a change, instead of complaining about it? Voting is a right we had to fight for. You don't see it, but the blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors are on those ballots. Why should we dishonor them, by not voting? Doesn't make sense, does it?It's like this: You really don't have the right to complain, if you don't vote. To vote, you attempt to put in the leaders, that you believe will listen to into office. If they don't win, you can complain that "If the guy/gal I voted for got in, things would've been different." If they win, and don't listen, you have the right to complain that they aren't doing their job, and that's when you write your representative, and complain to him/her. That's called "getting involved in your government", which a lot of people don't do.

A lot of people want to complain about how the President is this or how Congress is that. How about you get involved in your government, and try to make a change, instead of complaining about it? Voting is a right we had to fight for. You don't see it, but the blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors are on those ballots. Why should we dishonor them, by not voting? Doesn't make sense, does it?

My reply might be

"Quite the opposite it true, if you vote a believe that voting is the fair and just way to determine what is wrong and what is right, then when you lose you should accept the defeat gracefully and give into whatever demands the winning side makes.

And all this talk of my government is an outright lie. It is not of my own making, choice, or control. Any support it gets from me is incidental and stems out of fear, nay sheer terror."

or perhaps using the against me argument.
Would you use violence against me for disagreeing with you?

Or marc's quasi-famous
"What level of violence are you willing to use to provide a good or service?"

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